shooting sound without crystal sync

**francesco bargilli** · August 19th, 2000, 06:22 PM

Hallo everybody,
I'd like to realize a short feature film with super 8 camera, shooting sound while filming, but my camera (like most of super 8) is not crystal controlled. Does that represent a real problem? My camera is a Minolta xl - 400. I read somewhere it has a quite regular speed. I hope someone of you has experience in this matter. Thanks a lot, cheers.
Francesco

**Nigel** · August 19th, 2000, 06:36 PM

It won't work. Even if your camera has what you or most would consider to be a nice constant speed any variation will cause you to lose sync. Good Luck

eddie · August 21st, 2000, 01:21 PM

unless you are very creative* it will be difficult.

* such as using short takes, voice overs, hiding the mouth, and so on....a headache, but cheap.

**chrust19** · August 21st, 2000, 04:21 PM

No matter how regular your camera may be, without crystal sync. it will be impossible to do any sync sound because your camera will never run at a constant speed, sometimes it'll be 18fps, sometimes 20fps, sometimes 17fps. How about just trying a silent? Steven Spielberg did an awesome silent in his early years, i can't remember what it's called, but it was very powerful.
Best of Luck
Christi

**francesco bargilli** · August 21st, 2000, 04:43 PM

Thanks to everybody, it's nice to hear something clear, even if news are bad news!
Anyway, could I realize, without crystal sync, a music video for some friends? Are there problems with playback syncronizations if I'm filming the guys while they're playing? Or could I just cut the 'out of sync' shots? Is anybody out there with this kind of experience? Sorry if my English is quite poor.
Francesco

**Nigel** · August 22nd, 2000, 05:24 PM

I have shot a couple videos and I have never shot them "sync". The music was laid-back after shooting. There was a scratch track laid down while shooting but it was never used for anything. The only time you really need to shoot a music video in "sync" is when you shoot it live like a concert. I did shoot at solid 24fps. I guess it all depends on what you want to do. I think you can do it without crystal.

Good Luck

**Actor** · October 10th, 2000, 02:04 AM

Hasn't anybody ever heard of pilotone?

I think the Minolta XL-400 has a flash contact. If it does then you can get a digital to pilotone converter from The Film Group. Plug the converter's inputs into your Minolta's flach contact, its output into the Nagra and you will record not only the sound but a record of the camera's variations. This can be used to sync your sound in post. Works every bit a good as crystal sync.

**chrust19** · October 11th, 2000, 11:28 AM

Well, piletone can get a bit tricky, it's not really that easy.
The theory behind piletone (which is numerical coding on the tape) is that for every frame of picture there will be a frame of sound.
In order to coordinate the Nag and the camera the sync signal must be related to the camera speed, in US the frequency is 60hz, and in Europe 50hz. So a 60hz frequency (from the power-line)recorded on the sync track will be at exactly the same frequency as that driving the camera, any variation in camera speed caused by fluctuation in power-line frequency will be reflected to the sync trac.

So piletone would also be an option for you, if you can get you're hands on it, and this super 8 hookup that actor suggests is availabe, however, i would almost guarantee it to cost a lot, which might not be too practical for a super 8 short.
Christi

**Nigel** · October 11th, 2000, 04:39 PM

My gripe against pilotone is the fact that you are connected to the recorder. The whole reason crystal sync was invented was to get rid of this pain. The last thing I want to do is have a Nagra around my neck, riding levels at the same time as I am shooting--Or have a person following me around. Either option is out in my book.